The Hobbyist #20: The Miracle of “The Floss” with Bonnie Crotzer
Try a month free of Bonnie’s program with a special offer for Hobbyist subscribers!
Graphic design by Thomas Euyang
I’m not very good at yoga. I have very long limbs that I am in very poor control of and these limbs are remarkably stiff. It makes settling into challenging postures rather uncomfortable, and it takes about a week of doing yoga every single day to begin feeling any improvement. It’s one of those activities that I’m very glad I did after it’s done, but that feeling isn’t strong enough to get me to do it again. All this changed when I flossed for the first time.
I first found out about flossing via my friend Ben, who took me to a class at Sky Ting in NYC — a hip and happening yoga studio that was located on the seventh floor of a Chinatown building before recently relocating to NoHo. There, I participated in a class called The Floss, led by Bonnie Crotzer, which was a hybrid yoga-stretching-body work extravaganza that emphasized moving in and out of exercises as opposed to settling into any poses.
I quickly became obsessed with the practice, tuning into Bonnie’s live streams twice a week and feeling significant improvements with the aches that calcified over the years into chronic pain. Bon, a former professional dancer, is part practitioner, part healer, part wizard. She’s also a world class choreographer, having drawn up the first dance for my wife and me at our wedding (it was a rousing success).
Because flossing and The Floss mean so much to me, and because Bonnie is one of the coolest people around, we’ve decided to give all Hobbyist subscribers ONE MONTH FREE ACCESS to her program. Live classes are twice a week, Monday at 9 AM EST and Thursday at 10 AM EST. Go to thefloss.com and enter code “FLOSSBOSS” at checkout for one month of free classes. This includes live classes and an entire archive. I’m not selling anything here. I just want you to love The Floss as much as I do. I hope you check it out.
You grew up in Santa Barbara and you were a dancer before you got into flossing, right?
Bonnie Crotzer: Yeah, I was a professional ballerina mostly, but we did all kinds of dance, jazz, and modern contemporary.
How did you first get into dancing?
BC: My mom put on the Baryshnikov Nutcracker when I was three. She said it was the first time I sat still in my entire life. I would usually move every second, but I was glued. I sat right in front of the TV for three and a half hours. Then I started dancing around the house, I think, and eventually my parents put me in gymnastics, and then put me in ballet class when I was four or so.
That was kind of it. I knew I wanted to dance and by nine I was getting pretty serious about it. It actually really helped me with my academics. I really struggled with focus and reading when I was little. Dance showed me I could be successful at something, and if I worked hard it would feel good. From there, I was a straight A student all the way until I got a B minus in jazz class in college.
Damn jazz class. How early on did you know that you had to take it extremely seriously and work really hard if you wanted to be good at it?
BC: I think my ballet teacher, Lisa Absher, saw my talent and she really pushed me. She maybe put me on a pedestal in a lot of ways, or she put a lot of expectations on me, that I was going to be the one dancer that made it into the New York City Ballet from her tiny school. That's a lot for external pressure. It was a lot to hold, and I wanted it so badly. Not making it to the New York City Ballet was something I had to process as an adult. I still had a career, even if I didn't get the top thing. But yeah, around 10 I was like, ‘I'm doing this. I'm definitely going to make it as a ballerina.’
I got my point shoes when I was 11. I think she put me on point earlier than the other girls, and I would get shipped off to dance school in the summer. I would come back and I would grow so much. I don’t regret anything, but looking back, if I had known anything about the dance world or if my mom knew anything about the dance world, I would've switched schools by age 12. It was such a good foundation that my teacher gave me. But when I went away, I would grow a hundred fold in my technique.
Where'd you go to college?
BC: I went to UC Irvine for their dance program because it was second to Julliard at the time.
Did you move to New York immediately after college?
BC: No, I went to San Francisco first and danced there. I sprained my ankle really badly and I was waitressing and teaching on my feet, so it wasn't healing. So I peaced out to Hawaii for a little while and then when I came back to California, I got a gig, a company job in Santa Barbara. I stayed and danced for a long time, but I didn't mean to stay there for so long. I was going to go back to San Francisco, but they were like, ‘Hey, we could use an extra swan for Swan Lake.’ Then they were like, ‘Hey, we could use an extra person for the Nutcracker.’ Then, it was seven years later.
Did you go to New York from there?
BC: Yeah. I got a gig with a modern dance company there. That was actually the year before I met my former teacher, Bob Cooley, who taught me about fascia. He did some dancing in his lifetime, actually. He was a math professor at Williams College and an interesting character. He got hit by a car that was going 70 miles per hour and it killed his friend he was walking with. It destroyed his internal organs, but the doctors couldn't figure out what was wrong. He decided he was going to heal himself and that's when he learned about fascia and meridians and Chinese medicine. He put it all together to create this very specific movement practice. I had read Bob's book because I was teaching yoga in California. The owner of the studio passed me Bob's book and was like, ‘You've got to read this.’
I didn't realize how much I soaked it in and how important it was to me until Bob and his posse came to teach a workshop and give some private sessions. The trainers were like, ‘You've memorized this whole book.’ I had started incorporating it into my yoga teacher practice, but the first thing I did was the quad floss on the wall. Immediately I was like, ‘Whoa, this is different.’ I was doing everything to take care of my body for my dance career. I was going to yoga almost every day. I thought that was the answer.
I was getting acupuncture, which was very helpful, but wasn’t sealing the deal. I was trading with a guy, I was teaching him ballet for massages Anyways, I did that quad floss on the wall and I was like, ‘Oh my God, there's actually something to this.’ I immediately got a detox reaction. I felt nauseous, like I was going to throw up. I actually felt it deep in the belly of my tissues versus a passive stretch, where you skip over the depth or the sensation. It goes straight to the joint and it's that regular stretchy feel. When you floss, it's in the meat of the tissue. I stood up, I felt different. I was like, ‘What is happening to me?’ I started to incorporate it. I met Bob and at the end of the lecture, he was like, ‘You need to learn this.’ I said no,I just wanted to do it for myself and throw it into some yoga and keep dancing.
Where was he based?
BC: He was in Boston. I was doing my dancer thing in New York, and we were on tour in Vermont. I stayed three more days and went to check this place out. I got a little bit more work done on my body and I was just like, ‘Oh my gosh, what's happening here?’ Then I started studying with Bob, that next summer or something like that. This was 2012.
Did you stay there for a longer period of time?
BC: Yeah, I went back and stayed. I started training with him and then he wanted to come to Santa Barbara more often, so then I would come back to Santa Barbara with him and we would train and I would assist him. I was learning and he got me doing privates. I would sometimes stay in Santa Barbara a little longer while he was in Boston and he would set me up with privates a month into my training, which is absurd and unheard of, but I had all this body knowledge. He knew I had a natural knack for it. I was a weird little savant. I'm not trying to blow up my bubble here, but it's always that way when you don’t really want to do something [laughs]. I never wanted to become a body worker. I just wanted to dance.
How long did you dance professionally for? When did you officially stop?
BC: It was about 10 years. I started in college, started getting jobs then and into my 30s. I was doing film work and random gigs, but I didn't have a full-time company job. I really wanted to have another company job or get on Broadway and I was auditioning, but I was also making money doing privates. When I moved to New York, I was really starting to make some money, and I needed to support myself, but I also wanted to keep dancing. The universe just kept pushing me into this space of being a healer versus a dancer. I tried to escape that fate multiple times and the universe was like, ‘I'm over here.’
I had an activewear brand for five years and I was integrating the fascia stuff and the Chinese medicine stuff into. That brand was called Ghost Flower and we sold it, but that was another case where I was like, ‘This is going to be my nest egg and I'm not going to have to work anymore.’ It was not [laughs]. Once we sold that, I met up with this chiropractor who loves The Floss. He was like, ‘You need to monetize this and get paid. I would send all my patients to you, but you need to organize it.’ During the pandemic, we all started teaching online, and then people would just Venmo me. I was getting a little bit of pocket money, but I needed to make it a real thing. In two weeks I built the subscription on my Squarespace site and it’s growing. The whole industry is. People actually know what fascia is now. Twelve, 15 years ago, nobody knew what fascia was, so it's a breath of fresh air, but it's slightly annoying when influencers who have big followers are talking about fascia and don’t know what it is. I'm not bitter. Promise [laughs].
How did you first begin working with Sky Ting here in NYC? What was your relationship like to the yoga studio versus your own Floss program? Were you building your community through the studio or was it independent and you were just teaching there once in a while?
BC: That's how it started, but now I really cherish the in-person time and getting to celebrate my yogic background.I did my yoga training when I was 22 and now I’m infusing the two backgrounds. I don't think I'm at Sky Ting trying to build my platform because people aren't really transitioning from there to The Floss. There are foreigners who visit New York and they’re Floss members, so they’ll come to Sky Ting to meet me in person. That's always a big heartfelt moment. There was this woman in Germany and she was struggling with a severe and rare case of arthritis. She started doing The Floss and she got off all of her extreme medications and she's doing really well. When that happens, my heart just melts. I remember why I’m doing this because sometimes when you're in the virtual space, you're like, ‘What the fuck am I doing?’ You're in your own world in a way, even though I see everyone on Zoom twice a week. Those live classes are totally grounding and very important to me. It's harder when I'm just uploading videos online all day or teaching to a camera.
Tell me about some other success stories.
BC: One member from Spain, he struggled with his rotator cuff and his whole shoulder for years and years and years. I think it was 17 years. After three classes he said his pain was gone. Stories like that mean a lot.
What outside of dancing and Flossing brings you joy in this world?
BC: I love to go to the farmer's market. I'm very much an outside California girl, so I love being in the garden. I like going on hikes and surfing. I like to keep the house. I like to clean and make a beautiful nest, and I meditate every morning. It's my joy. I love to read. I read fantasy books, but I also try to read things that teach me.
Yeah, my wife and you are both obsessed with Court of Thorns and Roses.
BC: I saw Mel Robbins on Instagram touting off about Court of Thorns and Roses. I was like,‘ I feel so affirmed right now!’ She mentioned lessons of good and evil and how to be the best version of yourself.
Otherwise, I'm still going to dance class. That is my first love. I go to dance class at least five days a week, sometimes six. That’s my foundation. My movement practice obviously fuels my ability to keep teaching.
Do you have a different perspective on dance now that it's not your profession? Is it more enjoyable in a way?
BC: Yeah. I miss the grit, the practice, ‘I'm going to get this right. I]ve got to be the best dancer.’ But without that, there is lots of freedom. I don't think I'll ever lose that desire to keep being a fully expressed artist, but without the pressure of the professional career nor the outside gaze.
I've had to teach myself how dance is more about the movement quality and less about the aesthetic value. It’s very detrimental to a young girl, emphasizing having a certain look and movements need to look a certain way and you need to look a certain way. So breaking through that and getting into the pleasure of dance has been nice. When I go into full flow mode, it's like time is relative. I feel like I’m working and not working all at once. I’m in this total state of full immersion despite the effort and the challenge. There’s pure grace. That's where I'm always trying to be in dance class. It doesn't always happen and dance as a practice, you have to learn the choreography, which is the hardest part. You don't always get a chance in class to go into full choreographic absorption where you don't have to think about what you're doing. When you do get there and you can just do the artist part, that's what I miss about performing. You've practiced the steps, you know it already, and then you get into that flow state because you already know the choreography.
What's the grocery list look like when you go on to the farmer’s market in Santa Barbara?
BC: In Santa Barbara? The carrots, 100%. I'll even buy a bag of carrots and put 'em in my suitcase. Avocados. Sorry, there's no other avocado. I think I've started to get allergic to strawberries, which sucks, but we have the best strawberries in the world here in Santa Barbara. Little gems, broccolini, a squash in the summer. Heirloom tomatoes, green beans, fresh beets, pistachios. I was just eating Santa Barbara pistachios. The flavor is lemon zinger. Highly recommend.
This might be a little bit of a loaded question, but why should someone floss?
BC: My first instinct is to say that I didn't know I could feel this good after changing my fascia in this particular way. It's not foam rolling, it's not getting a massage. It's not anything from an external force. It's really changing the foundational continuous fabric and nature of the fascia to be more hydrated, functional, pliable. When I changed that, I didn't know I could feel this good. Not only did my architecture change in terms of posture and injuries being relieved, it was physiological, which was maybe more major than my injuries and I didn't know it. Huge hormonal changes, digestion changes, and immune system changes. That's for me.
Other people experience relief from chronic illness, arthritis, or lymphatic issues. People that are going through gut health issues can find a lot of support here; brain fog, too. For someone who is skeptical, I would say the coolest part about fascia flossing is that you're having to very much effort your own healing. You're participating in your own healing versus giving that to somebody else to try to heal you, giving up that power.
When we use the resistance or the engagement, the level of involvement increases. You can't escape what's really going on in your body anymore. We could go into a pose and relax and breathe and it's great for the nervous system, it's great for the fluid matrix in the body, but you're not going to be able to change fibers—structural fascia—that are stronger than steel per weight. If you think you're going to change that in a passive stretch, we might want to reconsider that logic.
The other part of that is engagement faculty is really making you get your consciousness involved with parts of your body that might have been a little bit in lockdown mode. The fascia is very highly innervated, it's the most proprioceptive part of the body. When the fascia gets really dense in an area, there’s a lack of awareness in that area.
You feel the pain, but it does feel vague.
BC: Joanne Avison always says, ‘If you're alive, you're embodied.’ If we are alive in this body on this planet, we are embodied. Working with fascia flossing, super imposes a need to become conscious of your embodiment. How available are we to look at our bodies and really see the truth of what's going on there? There's an actual tool that can morph your tissues and when you morph your tissues, you morph everything because the tissue matrix is the one thing that's connecting every other system, every other material in the body.
People are skeptical. I'm like, why not work on the one thing that's linking everything else that is continuous and ubiquitous? Joanne says it's the fabric of continuity. I think that's a really beautiful thing. Not only is it continuous in physical form, but if you believe in spirit, it's continuous in spirit. The fascia is a fantastic conductor of electricity. I know you've heard me say this a million times, but because of its collagenous nature, its main ingredient is collagen. Collagen actually produces electricity and conducts electricity. They've measured 78 or 87 different amplitudes of sound being able to transfer through the fascia.
I didn't know this, but I guess when folks pass away, they do cadavers studies, and they use an infrared light. The fascia is glowing for two days after the person passes. There does seem to be a connection between soul and fascia. Maybe I'm going too far out for your readership, but there's definitely a spiritual component to fascia. If we go get acupuncture, we go to a sound bath, the fascia is the material in the body that's conducting those different frequencies.
What's the difference between your flossing practice and a more traditional yoga class?
BC: A lot of the movements and the shapes that we make will look similar. The goal is perhaps different. I mea, the ultimate goal of Nirvana is there. The goal of creating a specific shape and a specific architecture and doing it in a way that someone told us was correct is the goal for a lot of yogic practitioners, but our goal with fascia flossing is that we generate and change our fascia to be super healthy tissue. Our aim is to create super healthy tissue for our bodies.
It's not to make a shape, it's not to look a certain way, it's not really to get somewhere. It's to gain health. That’s what foundationally makes it different. In real time, what makes it different is that we never hold a pose. We keep moving through a range and we use engagement, movement, and pulsing to change tissues along a specific range or a specific chain of fascia.’