A Hobbyist Halftime Snack: In Conversation with Grey Mcmurray
The guitarist discusses quantum theory and Prospect Park
Photo by Alex SK Brown
I wanted to speak with Grey Mcmurray about his hobbies because I had at one time planned to do a series on Body Meπa in conjunction with the group’s 2024 LP, Prayer in Dub. That idea sort of came into fruition. Last week’s edition of The Hobbyist featured Sasha Frere-Jones, who plays guitar in the band. This Halftime Snack features the band’s other guitar player, Mcmurray. While Body Meπa was a neat entry into Mcmurray’s world, it is merely one bullet point in a resume that positions him as one of the most interesting instrumentalists and songwriters in “experimental” music.
Artists in Grey’s orbit include: Gil-Scott Heron, Meshell Ndegeocello, Tyondai Braxton, Olga Bell, Ali Sethi, Beth Orton, Colin Stetson, So Percussion, Shahzad Ismaily, Sam Amidon, and John Cale. Pretty cool if ya ask me!
While hearing him discuss working with all of these fantastic musicians was interesting, our conversation was captivating for a few different reasons. Mcmurray and I spoke on a double release day, as Prayer in Dub arrived the same day as a solo EP, Crying At Breakfast. I am partial to both, and demand you listen to both. They are very different and both very excellent. The solo project came about thanks to the assistance of Adam Hopkins of the inimitable Out of Your Head Records, and while I was just vaguely familiar with the machinations of Mcmurray’s solo endeavors when we spoke, I instantly became a fan.
We didn’t talk too much about his music, though. We mostly discussed his favorite hobby, namely walking in Prospect Park and listening to audiobooks. He is very interested in quantum mechanics and math concepts so foreign to me I can’t even begin to comprehend what they mean, but the relative impenetrability is kind of the point for Mcmurray. These are facts, and their completeness—or their indisputability—are a balm. He says: “The information that's being given to me is actually about a process event or the way something is. It’s comforting. I think hobbies are things that are comforting.” A-freaking-men, my dude! That’s why I’m doing this whole thing. Check out our conversation below and check back on Friday for edition #5 of The Hobbyist. Also, listen to Mcmurray’s 2019 LP, Stay Up here.
When you’re not playing music, what do you enjoy doing?
Grey Mcmurray: I like walking in the park and listening to audiobooks about comparative religion studies and histories of mathematicians and some sci-fi. I also listen to proper great books. When I’m in my house, I make palimpsests. I'll have a piece of paper that I'll paint on and or draw stuff on. They're not for anybody. I get something out of it though I notice it can stress me out to think about trying to do it. Even with something that is supposed to an easy process I can still get stressed me out. Everything that I do can eventually stress me out—even the most basic shit.
But back to my main hobby, I really love listening to audiobooks. Podcasts very rarely happen. There's something specific about somebody reading something that is a developed complete idea. It's funny, obviously somebody's making something that is trying to worm its way into your life and be reminiscent of life, but when someone is talking and it's this very labored, cared for syntax, it's a different thing. I have no problem asking somebody what they mean or what a word means if I don't know what a word means. But I rarely ask in a conversation, “Can you say that again?” Not that I have a problem with it, it's just most of the time I'll be able to get it, and it's fine. When listening to a book, I go back 15 seconds a lot because somebody cared for this thing. There's something really neat about it being evident that some meaning was missed because of the organization showing itself.
I've never talked about this, so all of this is new for me to say out loud. I spent a lot of time in childhood with my grandmother, and we would sometimes just get in her car and drive so we could listen to the audio books that she was checking out, some of which were absolutely inappropriate for me at that age. She was checking out PD James, who wrote Children of Men. She also wrote a book called Devices and Desires. The point is, we would get in the car just to listen to the book. I suppose that's probably at least the beginning of that idea for me.
What are you listening to these days?
GM: A bunch of shit about quantum theory and the new ideas of this guy named Carlo Rovelli. I say these words like they have meaning to me, but I just have a cursory understanding of the thing. Looped quantum gravity is a way of trying to give a quantum vocabulary to how gravity works, which is basically the counter to string theory. String theory is supposed to be what is called a unified field theory, where the language of gravity and relativity and the language of quantum mechanics can sort of speak to one another because each of those universes don't speak to one another. The math in both universes is different. This guy, Carlo Rovelli talks about making gravity or thinking of gravity as a field, and then using the language and math and quantum mechanics to be able to address gravity as another way of trying to make all these different places sort of speak to one another. That shit absolutely makes me feel like I am calm. I feel very open and at ease when considering unfathomable sums
What is your park of choice?
GM: Prospect Park.
One of the great parks in the world.
GM: It's fucking wonderful. It's super, super wonderful. I grew up in New York and I realize that because New York is a cosmopolitan place and people want to come here, I'm able to mask the fact that I'm just a deeply provincial person. I can have a progressive outlook and be a very inviting, inclusive, warm spirited person, but I love my walking time. I walk the same route when I walk in the park. I'm walking my footsteps every day. I live a block away from being able to enter it.
I didn't grow up going to parks. It's not a lifelong thing. I found it recently and now it's a lifesaver. I love getting to be in the park.
What's the last great book you listened to while you were in the park?
GM: Because it's getting recorded, I want to say the things that are epic and perfect. I will say the best audio book I've ever listened to period was Song of Solomon. She read most of her books. Tat's a deep thing. Hearing somebody read their own book is pretty cool. One I listened to recently that I liked was called The Secret Life of Numbers. It was basically a history of mathematicians that were either women or people of color that are not part of the conversation about the trajectory of mathematical understanding across multiple millennia. That was riveting, but the audiobooks came with PDFs to check out. I needed something different. I love N.K. Jemisin. I went in on this guy, Jeff VanderMeer.
He’s the best.
GM: I'm not going to make any broad sweeping statement about sci-fi, but I like when people are particular and subtle or not heavy handed with whatever message they're trying to go in on. It's like halfway through the second book when it's really evident that he's actually a climate conscious, environmental sort of person. I didn't know that he lives in fucking Tallahassee. It's like, “Oh, this makes sense. This is what he's talking about.” It was very riveting. I also liked Dawn of Everything. And the guy reading had a, I feel like if the person reading has a slight irritation, they're trying to get through it, and they're just pushing the pace a little bit, that helps.
D you have a background in math?
GM: No, I'm just into it. I think this is reductive and probably not exactly what I mean, but there's something about confronting things that at least surface wise are sort of unimpeachable or you can't really argue. We're talking about something that is at least approaching something fundamental. There's a certain ease. I can let go of whatever I have to deal with. The information that's being given to me is actually about a process event or the way something is. It’s comforting. I think hobbies are things that are comforting.
I think hobbies should be comforting! Does your mind drift when you're listening and walking?
GM: If I've missed 20 seconds, I'll go back. Getting really into it is more relaxing than me drifting. I drift, but in a weird way, where it allows me to focus.
How long are your walks? Do they vary? Or are they pretty regimented?
GM: Probably 40 minutes or an hour and a half. It's one of two loops.
Are you listening to audiobooks when you're walking to gigs or going to studio sessions?
GM: Yeah. Any time I leave my house I listen to an audiobook or records. I was recently on a car trip with a friend of mine, it was about a four hour drive, and we only listened to 70s Stevie Wonder for two and a half hours.
Where did you record your new EP?
GM: It was really piecemeal. Some of it was done at Figure 8, which is Shahzad Ismaily’s studio. He's a dear person to me. The last track was recorded in my house. That's actually my favorite guitar sound that I've ever managed to capture, though I can't recreate it. There were a couple things that happened that worked out. It was a little bit lucky.
Do you have a favorite Shahzad story? He's one of the greats. I recently saw him play at Le Poisson Rouge with Big Bend.
GM: He is a wizard, a rare human being. Two that come to mind. We became close probably like 10 years ago. We did this recording session, which was where I also met Greg Fox, and we've been dear friends since the session. The session was super strange, but I became friends with Shahzad during it. A couple of months later, he left me this message. He had just played at The Stone, and he was driving to Maine to play with Sam Amidon. It was the middle of the night and it was a snowstorm. I don't think he'd ever called me before. He called and he left this message. He was like, “Hi Gray. I'm driving to Maine right now.” It was a 10 hour drive in the middle of the night, January or February or something. He's like, “It's a really bad snowstorm. I can't really see the road, and so if I don't make it, I just want you to know that I really love you.” It was both nothing of consequence and the only important thing.
That was pretty good. The first time I actually met him was 10 years before we properly met. I had just moved to New York. I was playing a duo gig with a woman named Michelle Casillas, and we were playing at Pete's Candy Store. It was a night put on by this guy named Garrett Devoe. Garrett and Shazad played before us, and they played for a while. First of all, Shazad is a striking looking human being and also just plays perfectly. Anytime he's playing, he elevates everything. He was playing with this guy who was playing acoustic guitar, and he played some drums, he played bass, and he played some slide guitar. You almost forgot the songs because he was so good, but what he was doing was not in the way.
I had just graduated from music school, but this was a different lesson. The night went a little long. We got up, we played two songs, and then they told us we had to stop. Michelle was kind of bummed and she left. Shahzad said they were going to this house party and play a set. I told him I had to get home. I lived on 125th and Broadway. We were in Williamsburg. He was like, “Oh, okay. Do you want a ride?” I was in Harlem and he was going across the street. He drove me home. We didn't know each other from anybody and he drove me home. The next time I saw him was 10 years later.